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The roller-coaster ride of boat buying.


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#51 2-N-TOW

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:50 PM

From Ribs...

 

Sent 13 December 2017 - 02:56 PM

Awesome! Once again, you're a Rock Star.  MANY THANKS!!!

 

Now, I just talked with Cap'n Joyce because my wife gave me my papers this morning, which include her orders be followed.  Cut to the chase, could you do this run with me a day in the week between Christmas and New Years instead?  The marina is open and Joyce is free.  And if for some reason the weather is shit, she'll do the water test another day on her own.  I have to book a flight ahead of time ($550) and just pray the weather cooperates.  As you know, I can skip the water test as "I think I know what the boat is and that the Surveyor is looking out for me".

 

Joyce is happy that you will share this tomb on the site, which includes a couple of plugs for her business contact info...thank you!

 

You've got me thinking about making that run myself.  But, hear me out.  I've got bids coming in on this web site sponsored by Boat Trader, USHIP, and I'm at about $800 from reputable boat-specific haulers, but haven't asked them just yet if that includes all of the oversized / wide load permitting fees....which, now...

 

Get this, I added-up those oversize/wide load permits and came-up to about $400, my cost.  then there's orange banners front and rear on the haul, plus the orange flags I have to buy.  I know I should have stayed with 8'6", but if you're going to go to 26+ feet, give me the god damn wide beam to go with it!!!  :gun:

 

I have to rent a 3/4 ton truck for two days - that's $300 rental total + 25 cent mileage + gas.  The total rig to yank weighs about 8,000 lbs.  With truck I'm over 10,000, which makes me subject to having to stop at any open weigh station.  I'm up to $800 myself!   :thumbsdown:   And the truckers bidding have their own commercial plates to attach to the trailer so I don't have to get the damn rig registered before transit (that's a significant P.I.A. factor saver right there! 

 

Things are beginning to take shape!   :devil:


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#52 2-N-TOW

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:51 PM

From Ribs...

 

Sent 13 December 2017 - 03:23 PM

Quick note - I'm getting bids in the $750 range now and those are all-inclusive, so no oversized fees, etc. and they will attach their commercial plate, so I don't have to register the rig, just insure it, I believe...

 

So I really do have to get down there for the Survey/Water Test...before I go and let the pro's drag it up in January...

 

Talk to ya!   :punk:


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#53 2-N-TOW

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:51 PM

From me...

 

Sent 13 December 2017 - 07:06 PM

Damn...didn't realize the costs were like that.  I will make darn sure the next boat 8'6"!  I already have a 3/4 ton truck, so that part of any future upgrade is taken care of.

 

Try this guy...have heard nothing but great things about his company.  A number of people on TheHullTruth have used him and he posts regularly on that site.

 

SmittysHaulin.com

 

Yeah...I can go then.  Got no plans for the holidays other than staying around the house.  What time are you shooting for arriving in Norfolk and what time is the return flight?


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#54 2-N-TOW

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:52 PM

Ribs reply...

 

 

Sent 13 December 2017 - 07:55 PM

Appreciate everything, Dan!!  I will check out Smittys for sure.

I'm looking online for those dates and now I'm getting total crap for available flights in that week in between the holidays - nothing direct, everything with one stop, and that doesn't work because I'll spend 12 hours round trip in an airplane.   :thumbsdown:

To answer on flights - the morning flights arrive by 8:30-9 (if you get the non-stop, it's a 2:15 flight!).  And the evening flights depart somewhere around 7ish, I see I can get.

Sorry to keep throwing horseshoes at you on these dates, but what are your plans the week of January 2,3,4,5?  There are non-stop flights available on those dates right now (and guess what - they're not $650, they're like $280.00  - Holy smokes, that's a savings).


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#55 2-N-TOW

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

From me...

 

 

Sent 13 December 2017 - 09:04 PM

Possible during the first week of January...depends on how quiet things are at work.  Friday the 5th would probably be the better date (90% sure it would not be an issue at work).

 


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:06 PM

At this point, there was a number of exchanges regarding flights, the issue of enough time to do everything in one day and return to Boston that night, and overall logistics.  Ribs finally worked out an itinerary, flying into Salisbury, MD and I would pick him up there on 1/5.  It is roughly 1.5 to 2 hours to the marina, then I would drop him off that evening at a local motel and he fly back home Saturday morning (1/6).  All of this was worked out 12/14/2017.

 

Well...so much for planning things!  First, the Northeast had a stretch of sub-freezing weather for the past 2 weeks.  Next, the weather forecast as of 1/1/2018 had the mid-Atlantic states getting hammered by a snow storm (we ended up with 12 inches today, followed by three days of single digit temps).  Rivers even this far south are iced over.  Where the boat is stored in Delaware (covered storage), the ice is even thicker.  So...Friday's trip has been cancelled and we are having a fun time trying to schedule something in the future once the weather cooperates.  The surveyor also has made some very good comments regarding what she needs, weather wise, to do a thorough evaluation.


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:07 PM

From me...

 

Sent Yesterday, 08:05 AM

How did you manage to schedule this "road trip" on the heels of one heck of a snow storm and accompanying blast of cold weather????


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:08 PM

Ribs reply...

 

Sent Yesterday, 08:40 AM

Hey, if I were Mother Nature, I wouldn't need a boat in the first place!

 

I don't know if you got my texts yesterday, but I've just cancelled my flights for this week and so-forth and I am now deferring to Captn. Joyce to look into her weather crystal ball and pick a date when she thinks the hull will be thawed enough to properly sound test the structural elements. 

 

We're somewhere out in the Friday, 1/19 area presently, but awaiting her sign as we were trying for doing it on 1/15 until we found out the marina's not allowing our type of stuff (or anything else) on MLK Day...

 

Let me know you got this message or shoot me a text.  Sorry for the run-around.  If this boat ain't gonna sail for you at this point, don't fret, I'd certainly understand and I can book a new trip plan with a rental car included out of Salisbury for-cheap.   :gun:


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:13 PM

And here is some excellent information from the surveyor!

 

Ribs reply...

 

Sent Today, 03:42 PM

Hey Dan,

 

Cap'n Joyce has weighed-in on the schedule for the survey and I'd say what follows is sage advice for anyone considering hiring a surveyor, particularly to conduct a structural survey in the colder months of the calendar year...

 

Hi Mike,

 

Please feel free to share My Previous EMAIL with the sellers of the Stratos and with Dan Rogerson who has my permission to post on the Robalo Boat Owners Forum.

 

Copy and paste as necessary.

 

Please use my Email as posted below – I cleaned it up a little so as to not mention anything negative about fellow surveyors.  Some believe in Moisture Meters, such as myself, while other surveyors do not have faith in a moisture meter.

 

Thank you,

 

Cap’n Joyce

 

<begin original message>

 

From: Captain Joyce Nolen [mailto:nms@captnolen.com]


Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:01 PM

To: 

Subject: Surveying the 1994 / Stratos / 2500 -- Freezing Temperatures


Ahoy Mike,

 

Thought I’d send you an email so we can get each other in our email rolodexes.

 

Looking ahead 10 days with the ‘Weather Channel’ – I do not see warming temperatures headed our way.  In fact – wintery mix is hitting us today & tomorrow. Friday will have 50 MPH wind gusts with Gale Watch in Effect.  Jan 15th is also calling for ice & sleet – so I guess it’s better we cancelled that date – plus the marina is closed for Martin Luther King.


I fear we must postpone the survey until we get multiple days of above freezing temperatures so I can get true percussion soundings and moisture readings.  If the fiberglass (FRP) is wet, my mallet and moisture meter won’t be true, therefore potential de-lamination may go undetected.  Once the hidden moisture is frozen, it will take several days of above freezing temps for it to thaw.

Hidden moisture will remain until such a time that air can hit it.

 

The boat being stored inside the boatel at Indian River is an asset – but it is an unheated building and it will take a while for things to thaw out.

 

Please have patience and wait for warmer weather which may not happen until later in January, February or not at all until March.  You are about to make a serious investment and I want to protect your interest and safety as best I can.  If this was all about $$ for me – I would be pushing you to execute the survey now and would play down the effects of freezing temperatures. 

 

That’s not the way I run my business.  Safety and protecting your investment not only the day of survey, but your future as well, is paramount.  I don’t want you to get stuck buying a boat in questionable condition today, and then later find you cannot sell it due to deficiencies.

 

If you think you want to move on and use another marine surveyor, I can offer you a name of another local surveyor out of Ocean City, MD.  Should you elect to go with another survey, please make sure the have a moisture meter and know how to use it – you absolutely need a moisture meter to pick up wet laminate and coring that may not be de-laminated enough for the mallet to detect.

 

I hope you stick it out with me and wait for warmer weather.

 

I will re-research the 2008 Evinrudes since I looked up 2011 models.  I will adjust my values and let you know what they are worth.

 

When we finally do the survey, I will use my infrared temperature gun to point and shoot at the fiberglass to see what the external temperatures are on the hull and transom, etc.  That way we know what we’ve got.

 

Thanks for listening and please – let us be patient!

 

Sincerely,

 

Cap’n Joyce

 

www.captnolen.com

443-350-3447


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:17 PM

So...this is where we are now on the roller coaster ride!  What originally started out as a search for a bigger Robalo has led to another brand, but the information and experience gained from this search can be applied to any boat purchase.  That is why Ribs and I thought it would be a good idea to let everyone else see what is involved.  


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Posted 27 January 2018 - 02:18 AM

Great read! I am anxious to see how things pan out.

 

I had a lot of the same ride looking for my boat 3 years ago. A good surveyor saved me from a horrible mistake on a 40' Ocean. 



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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:54 PM

Ribs and I have been exchanging emails over the past 3 weeks.  First, the weather has conspired against the surveryor as she had to wait for a slight thaw in order to do her job.  On top of that, sea trials have been delayed either due to ice or bad weather.  I just got the pictures and reports this week.  Things got real interesting.  I will be posting updates in the next day or so.


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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:03 PM

Time for some more updates.  Since my last posting marathon a lot has been going on. 

 

First thing...the boat that is being considered is in Rehobeth Beach, Delaware.  One of the biggest problems encountered the first 3 weeks of January have been the weather.  Cold weather prevents surveyors from doing certain tests as part of their inspection.  Hull temperatures below 32 degrees may give the indication of being solid, but once the temp is above freezing, the same tests yield a different result.  Any frozen moisture in a hull can give false readings!  Ribs finally got a break with the weather on 1/22 and the survey could be performed.

 

As for a sea trial of the boat, has not happened yet.  Tried to do that earlier this  month, but had to wait for the spring thaw so the ice at the marina could melt!

 

So the following posts will be from the email exchanges.  There were some text messaging going on between Ribs and me, but I will let him fill that in if he wants to.

 

Here are the engine reports....very impressive!

 

Attached File  engine report - page 1.jpg   100.4K   1 downloads

 

Attached File  engine report - page 2.jpg   92.58K   1 downloads

 

Attached File  engine report - page 3.jpg   64.48K   0 downloads

 

Also, I am going to hold off posting pictures from the surveyor until everything plays out.


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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:26 PM

 
From: Mike R. 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:40 PM
To: Dan
Subject: FW: DAY 1 of 2 Part Survery - Photos taken while surveying the Stratos 1/22/18
 
Hey Dan,
 
Great to be connecting with you over email.  While we await the big time photos of the bulkheads in question, here’s her first day’s photos – she got shot out of the marina Monday as they closed at 3 and she didn’t see it coming… so she had to go back today…
 
I’ll send you another email right after this one with her armchair assessment so-far that accompanies this set of photos.  There’ll be more to come when we get the next set of photos from today with the bulkheads and her summary of the survey and Captain’s comments…that the boat is Low Average condition, maybe even Fair condition, not Average or Above Average or Excellent, but the motors are quite nice…
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike
 
From: Captain Joyce Nolen [mailto:nms@captnolen.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Mike Ribaudo 
Subject: Photos taken while surveying the Stratos 1/22/18
 
Sorry – few photos are out of focus but you can still see the stress cracks in cockpit sole (don’t appear to be deep or structural).
 
 
 

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:27 PM

 
From: Mike R.
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:42 PM
To: Dan
Subject: FW: Surveying the Stratos Day 1
 
Dan,
 
Here’s Joyce’s commentary on Day 1 photos 
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike
 
From: Captain Joyce Nolen [mailto:nms@captnolen.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:41 PM
To: Mike Ribaudo
Subject: Surveying the Stratos
 
Hi Mike,
Sorry for the delay in getting these photos to you so you can study them closely.  Think I’m coming down with cold or flu.  Slow Motion today!
Ugly weather today so I did not return to Indian River.  They are going to pull the boat out for me so I can get better lighting and can get under the boat for better inspection of keel area.
Mallet soundings and moisture readings were very good throughout exterior hull and transom.  Few minor scuffs and rubbed vinyl graphics where Lady Mac Bette is on both sides.  Figure you will remove the name anyway.
I did visually observe and mallet sound the interior transom area and the longitudinal stringers where tabbed to interior transom with no suspect areas noted.  (Can’t reach it with moisture meter)
Mallet sounded entire cockpit area aft of the canvas enclosure.  No delamination.  Few minor stress cracks at outboard cockpit and around the live well frame where the fiberglass has a sharp turn.  I see this all the time.  Does not appear to be deep or structural.
 
I plan to return tomorrow – Wednesday to finish up.
 
As far as sea trial goes – Thursday / Friday I have to go to Norfolk, VA to document that 65’ barge that sank.  I won’t be available for sea trial until next week.
Looking at the weather – middle of next week will be 50 – 56 degrees with mild wind gusts.  Too windy early next week with cold temperatures for doing a sea trial.
 
Maybe John M. will pay Jim  to take me out.  He said it’s about 3 hour drive for him – plus his health is not good.  I prefer someone that can be helpful if needed – like power failure or we run aground????  
Thanks for listening,
Cap’n Joyce

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

 
From: Mike R.
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:00 PM
To: Dan
Subject: Two reinforcing struts? on port side of cuddy
 
Dan,
 
Galley Stove Sink / Shore Power shows one box located behind the sink close to the exit to the cabin.
 
V-berth with Table shows the larger one, located half-way down the bunk and you can see there isn’t one on the Starboard side.
 
Neither appear on the other side of the hull… 
 
I was thinking these might be conduits for power, plumbing, or something of use, but Joyce could find no reason-like-that for them from her inspection.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:29 PM

My reply to Mike regarding the pictures referenced in post #66:

 

They appear to be factory molded into the cabin liner from what I can see in the pictures.  I can understand the one at the sink being used for plumbing and electrical, but cannot figure out what the forward one would be used for.
 
See the attached document with my comments.  Some of the stuff is just age, but some of those cracks, especially DSC09181, have me wondering if there was enough hull flexing to work on the liner.  Depending on where this particular picture was located, there may be the possibility of the hull twisting…that is why I was wondering about the stringers in the messages earlier tonight.
 
Looking forward to see the bulkhead pictures and any other comments from Joyce.  Based on what I have seen so far, I agree with you on your assessment.  My concern now is what about the things that cannot be visually inspected.
 
The boat would probably be fine for inshore and river use.  How will it react in 3 ft slop is something that you need to consider in case the tabbing of supporting structures has been compromised.
 
Why is it so damn difficult to find a decent boat?!?

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:30 PM

Dan,
 
No shit about finding a decent boat, WTF…
 
You’ve gone above and beyond.  Joyce has as well.  I’m very thankful.  I would like to help get the good word out about Joyce.  She’s as honest and hard working as the day is long.  I’ve told her I’ll post recommendations wherever she wants to help her word-of-mouth advertising of her services.
 
I forwarded your doc and pictures to go with your most pressing questions to Joyce.
 
9124 – I figured that to be an output for the macerated crap coming out of the head, but maybe that’s more forward?  Maybe it’s an old (factory installed) thru-hull transducer thingamabob?
 
9156 – that’s the way my robalo seacocks were as well…
 
9187 – that’s a bracket that ties the 200 gal. tank to the stringer mother nature took half of it away.  Jim Sweeney said the tank passed the pressure test in flying colors.  But if that bracket separates from the tank, bubye tank.  Joyce said I’ll be looking at a new tank in a few years, she guesses.
 
Once I have her report today, I’m going to spreadsheet the issues and attach monies to each.  IF the bulkheads in-question are a question of replacement and re-glassing, or no matter what, I will show them to a guy I have up here with his own shop and get his estimate on them – he’s the guy who said I was into maybe $10K on the 2600 Pursuit transom make-over!
 
Thanks, Dan!
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike

Dan
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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:35 PM

Dan,
 
Moderating the discussion...see Joyce's responses below to our collective concerns...
 
Thanks very much,
 
Mike
 
-------- Original message --------
From: Captain Joyce Nolen <nms@captnolen.com> 
Date: 1/25/18 1:19 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: "Mike R."
Subject: Re: Dan's comments on Two reinforcing struts? on port side of cuddy 
 
Hey Mike,
I will send fresh set of photos in a little while – need to clean them up a little first.
My answers & comments are highlighted in YELLOW – see below. 
 
From: Mike R. 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 6:49 AM
To: 'Captain Joyce Nolen' 
Subject: FW: Dan's comments on Two reinforcing struts? on port side of cuddy
 
Mornin’, Cap’n Joyce!
 
I hope that crab sandwich last night (what was the name of that place, The Crusty Crab or something?) was as good as it sounded when we spoke!  No doubt you well deserved it after our conversation and yesterday’s survey!  The CRAB BAG..................I got Crabs at the Crab Bag in Ocean City, MD.  -- LOL  I picked a couple of Hardshells and they were YUMMY!  Very expensive so I only get a couple at a time.  They fly them up from Louisiana during the winter and Chesapeake Bay crabs spring, summer & fall.  Best Crabs in the WORLD!
 
I hooked-up Dan with your photos and sent him pics of those port side boxed supports we were perplexed by.  He made some comments below this message and those came selected from comments which he made in the attached document.  You and I covered most of his questions, but if you could let me know on your take on his questions here and his comments below about possible hull twisting, I’d be grateful!
 
I’ve reattached the photos in-question here for you for easy viewing…
 
DSC09124            What is that extending from the hull bottom?       
                              TRANSDUCER MOUNTED TO FARING BLOCK.
 
DSC09173            Stress crack; odd that there is a chunk cracked like that, though.  Normal stress cracks are a single line.     
                              I THINK IT’S SLOPPY LAY-UP WITH POSSIBLE VOID UNDER GEL COAT.
 
DSC09174            More stress cracks in one area than I would have expected.  
 
DSC09181            Not sure about this one.       
                              Different angle of the previous photo – stress crack running from the 90 degree turn to the caulk line.
 
DSC09185            Tank date of 10/18/93.  Original tank.  Does Joyce have any reservations about the age of the tank, seeing that it is not coated?   
                              8” deck plate over top of the fuel cell has no gasket / O-ring in place to help keep it water tight.  Salt water has gotten to the tank – at least on the top as seen in this photo and the next photo.  Tank is now 25 years old – I would replace with poly tank after installing new access deck plate.  At least the cockpit sole is designed to pull up middle section for replacing / accessing the fuel cell.  I have read the ‘AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY’ for a 5052 Aluminum Fuel Cell is only 15 years – that blows my mind!  I just reviewed a couple of Chat Rooms for boat owners and see that another surveyor claims the Life Expectancy is anywhere from 6 months to 15 years – depends on installation such as a tank that is ‘foamed-in’, salt water exposure, etc.
 
DSC09187            Where is this in the boat?  A piece of un-treated yellow pine?  Looks like the aluminum under that stainless washer does not have much life left.  And what is with the 2 boards over to the right?  If they are something the owner tossed under there, that is ok.  But the 2x4 looks like it was part of the original build.  This is the L-Bracket for securing the fuel cell. 
 
You are looking at the top of the fuel cell.  Way to much pitting / corrosion, although it passed the mechanics pressure test – I fear it is doomed.  
They should have Isolated the stainless steel bolt and fender washer when installed – rubber grommet would have help.  You are right, they used a section of untreated 2 X 4 wood for bolting fuel tank in place.  Coast Guard Standards state a fuel tank is not permitted to move more than 1/4” IN ANY DIRECTION.  The one L-Bracket I could see is basically useless – I fear the tank will shift and / or bounce when boat is in a chop.  I am not sure what those 2 boards laying directly on top of the tank are doing there?  Might just be a platform for storage.  Should not store anything on top of a fuel tank.
If you want to pull the tank, inspect and determine it is still serviceable after you’ve cleaned all surfaces – research this product for coating the tank:  www.por15.com.  It’s a hard paint used to coat surfaces you want to protect against rust / corrosion – it basically water proofs everything it touches.  Just make sure it is OK to use over 5052 Aluminum.  I’ve never used it.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike
 
Mike Ribaudo
Vice President of Sales
Kase Printing, Inc.
 
Office:  603.821.7007
Mobile:  978.376.4476
www.kaseprinting.com
 
From: Dan Rogerson 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:56 PM
To: 'Mike R.'
Subject: RE: Two reinforcing struts? on port side of cuddy
 
They appear to be factory molded into the cabin liner from what I can see in the pictures.  I can understand the one at the sink being used for plumbing and electrical, but cannot figure out what the forward one would be used for. Definitely molded in by factory when the boat was built.   I refer to them as ‘KNEES’ and are designed to add additional strength to hull top sides.  See them all the time in wooden boats.
 
See the attached document with my comments.  Some of the stuff is just age, but some of those cracks, especially DSC09181, have me wondering if there was enough hull flexing to work on the liner.  Depending on where this particular picture was located, there may be the possibility of the hull twisting…that is why I was wondering about the stringers in the messages earlier tonight…Accessible bulkheads and stringers were good.
 
“Bulkheads are the frames that keep the sides from flexing in and out whereas the stringers keep the running surface rigid and not to flex up and down.  Did Joyce mention anything about the stringers or signs of stress cracks on the bottom of the hull where the stringers would be located and tied into the hull?”     I did not see any stress cracks on wetted surface area, but please bear in mind the hull was bottom painted and boat was sitting on a rack with other boats fairly close along each side of the Stratos.  I will get much better visual when they pick the boat up to splash for sea trial.  Mallet soundings were very solid with no elevated moisture.  I could not access the keel area, except from the transom.  Boat was too close to the ground and the support bunks made it impossible.  Will have great access when boat is lifted with fork lift.
 
FYI – The seacocks I could reach – handles were so stiff I could not exercise them.  I will recommend they be removed and serviced making sure they are in good operable condition prior to reinstalling.
I get the feeling the vessel’s owner has done zero general maintenance – he goes fishing and goes home – boat is crying for attention.
The headliner in cabin is free of staining and mold / mildew which is not the norm for a vessel this age.  No staining indicates the overhead deck hardware is not allowing water intrusion which the end result is always ugly dark water stains throughout the headliner with mold.
 
Looking forward to see the bulkhead pictures and any other comments from Joyce.  Based on what I have seen so far, I agree with you on your assessment.  My concern now is what about the things that cannot be visually inspected.
 
The boat would probably be fine for inshore and river use.  How will it react in 3 ft slop is something that you need to consider in case the tabbing of supporting structures has been compromised.
 
Why is it so damn difficult to find a decent boat?!?
 
 

Dan
1988 2160 / 2003 Evinrude 225

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:38 PM

My reply to post #69:
 
It is disappointing looking at some of those pictures.  Not trying to be a Robalo cheerleader, but my boat is 5 years older and does not have stress cracks like this one.  Really would have liked for it to have been in better shape.  The only highlights of the boat is the engines…everything else looks like it has been treated just as Capt Joyce said…used and put up wet.
 
I have attached some comments.  Let me know what you think.
 
Dan

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:40 PM

It is disappointing for sure, Dan.  I’m at-odds with myself over how to proceed.  Many buyers would run, but I’m not your average buyer.  
 
I know things people will never know or understand mechanically.  On the one hand, like you, I can fix just about anything that anyone in this world has ever made or be damn sure I find the right person to fix it right AND NOT charge me into bankruptcy to do it.  But I need your take on those stress cracks – I’ve got a fabulous guy up here who can address the issue, that’s if the issue is addressable.  I plan on sending him the photos along with Joyce’s statements and seeing what he says.
 
So I gotta ask you, and you know that I look up to you on these matters, if I could get these folks to $15K (and there’s a pair of rebuilt 2006 200HO Etec’s on CL now at an asking price of $18K) and I was willing to toss this coming boating season out the window with this rig sitting in my driveway for 2018, waiting for me to complete the next phase of the fixer-upper process, would you say there’s enough here to go ahead with the sale or enough here to cut the line-off and, for an analogy, leave the terminal tackle hung-up in the rocks (that’d be slang for the unrecoverable money that I’ve spent to date, $1,200). 
 
The greater part of this experience for me has been retroactively beating myself up in taking this guy’s word in the very first conversation for everything being in “excellent working condition” when I asked him to rate the electrical, rigging, plumbing, and electronics for me.  And, LIKE ALL PHOTO’S, the ones you and I saw look “fine on a computer”. Then having all of this delay getting a real set of eyes on the boat.
 
And now I’m not quite so enthused by the replies I received from the Etec mechanic who’s been on the boat and he said that he didn’t think there’d be much wrong with the rig when I asked him a few times over the month about his naked eye assessment of the boat.  I guess he’s a motor and trailer guy, but he buys old boats, just bought an old 24 Rampage in-fact, and says, “you’re always going to have to deal with repairing something when you buy something old”.
 
And to own-up to your earlier crack, why is it so hard to find a decent used boat?  My answer right now is they’re out there, but you’re going to have to pony up at least another $10K on the numbers we’ve been tossing around on these rigs to get this much footage, displacement, propulsion and Bluewater seaworthiness.  
 
Stated in-reverse, this boat’s worth $25K+ all-day if it was in above average condition. Joyce says that’s my sweat equity proposition.  How many knuckles do I want to make bloody?
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:41 PM

My reply to post #71:

 

As I said in my previous email, the motors are the prize on this rig.  The only thing I saw regarding them that caught me by surprise was the fuel filter had not been changed in 8 years.  But, if it has only 49 hours, probably only 150-200 gallons have passed through it.
 
Side rant….I hate NADA guide!  Ever since they caved in to the car dealers, they change their pricing guides for new and used items to straight retail.  There was a time you could get good valuation from it.  Reason for the rant was I went to their site to price this boat.  Did it only for boat, motors, trailer; nothing else.  Comes in with low retail $20,125, so I guess that is where the owner came up with his price.
 
Motors could probably be found for 5,500 to 7,000 each (may not be low hours like these, but they are 10 year old motors).  This is having time to shop around and get a good idea of what is available over a period of time; not just what is available as of this moment.
 
General consensus is if boat does not have current or 1 generation prior electronics, don’t even figure them into the price.
 
Advertisement pictures reminded me of a used car dealership ad; in person was a whole different perspective.
 
As for the mechanic’s opinion, I would not put much faith on anything other than his evaluation of the motors and maintenance history.  Like you said, he is accustomed to dealing with used boats, so in his opinion it may be a nice boat depending on what his point of reference is.
 
Back to the main item.  I see nothing wrong with offering $15k.  Even if he takes that and you go with the boat, I would guess you will end up with 7,500 to 10,000 into it to get everything the way you would like.  Do some of the stuff yourself and find good quality used items will help push the cost down.  You would also have to determine what level of finish you want to bring the boat to in regards of which stress cracks to repair and which to just ignore.
 
BTW…I don’t remember seeing the bulkhead pictures yet….did I miss them?
 
If you get the boat, I would recommend just clean it up and run it this summer, then start working on it in the fall.  If you can keep it at the house, purchase one of those fabric tents / car ports to put over the boat so you can work on it out of the weather.  Plus, by running it for one season, you may find some things are more important than others to be addressed.
 
Has Joyce given you her final assessment?
 
 
Sorry for jumping all over the place with my responses.  Just typing as things enter my mind.
 
Dan

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:42 PM

From the surveyor:

 

WHEW – you are wearing me out.  I usually don’t work this hard for a single survey.  But I understand I am your eyes, ears and nose since you are long distance buyer.
Good Luck with your negotiations.
 
Advise you get estimates to complete repairs to the listed deficiencies and make your offer to McNamara’s accordingly.  
 
DAN – the 2 busted bulkheads in questions appear to be light weight to begin with.  But since the manufacturer thought they needed to be there, I always back up their design and feel it is necessary to return vessel to how it was when it left the factory.  With that said – they should be repaired.
 
I don’t like the way weather is shaping up for sea trial next Wednesday – 35 degrees and you know the wind chill especially on the water is going to be in the 20s.  Best day is Thursday and I have another survey job.  Friday is better temperature wise but rain is predicted.
Maybe you and Mike can do sea trial without me.
 
Thank you both for reviewing the photos and my attached Punch List.
Chat Later,
Cap’n Joyce

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:49 PM

Ahoy Joyce,
 
This is fantastic, thank you very much for all of your efforts and I know this one has been a labor and-a-half for you.  I’m trying to keep my wits about me and this is a great help in applying logic where otherwise the heart and head compete for mindshare.  Having a professional survey also brings forward a reputable Third Party to the whole sale and transaction and your services are more than paid for by the expertise you bring to the process. 
 
Question for you, as I put together my guesstimate request to my fiberglass guy – what is it I’m looking at in DSC 9348 through 9351…is that one bulkhead and the worst one or is the one with the knife stuck in it the worst one?
 
Many thanks!
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike

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