Jump to content
Robalo Boating Forum
Sign in to follow this  
RichardK

Adding a bracket 2660

Recommended Posts

Doing the following to my boat

-Removing windshield and placing a 1 piece curved glass

-Adding a hardtop/pilothouse

-shortening cabin and removing stove and sink to place bathroom

-adding rewr door to pilothouse

-enclosing transom

-adding a bracket for optimax twin 200 motors

-remove floor livewell and place at the enclosed transom

 

 

So my main question is. Is it ok to add a fiberglass bracket with extended stringers into it. There would be a flotation part for the bracket with the angles of the transom. 

 

Would my motors be ok on the bracket or would the stern sit to low by placing the engines on the bracket?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot going on here!

Some thoughts:

Typical bracket is set back 30" from the transom.  Moving roughly 1,100 pounds further aft is going to change the attitude of the boat, especially at rest.  Are you designing your own bracket or having one built?  Have the biggest possible floatation tub built into the bracket to help when the boat is sitting in the water.  This will reduce the tendency for water to enter the scuppers.

Do some rough calculations on what your planned mods will do to the over-all weight of the boat.  The goal is to try to keep the balance point about the same as what it is from the factory.  Adding the pilot house can help offset the weight of the motors hanging on the bracket.  You may be able to move the pilot house forward a few inches to hit the sweet spot.

Any weight currently in the transom area that can be shifted forward will help.  Batteries, oil tanks, etc.  Plan for these to go to the pilot house, if possible.

Are you planning on extending the stringers when you re-do the transom?  That can be done and will work fine as long as you tie the new stringer material into the original one properly and extend them forward far enough to transfer the load over a larger area.  It is a good idea to increase the height of the stringers to the bottom of the floor as this will also give more surface to tie the transom to.  How are you planning on constructing the stringers and attaching to the existing ones? 

Also think about how you plan on building the full transom.  Look at my rebuild:

Short answer is your idea should work fine.  I went with a box structure when I built my enclosed transom.  The box with livewells actually added strength to the transom.  Between the box shaped upper portion and the extended knees I put in below deck, it has been rock solid.  No stress cracks after 14 years of hard running.  The big advantage you have going for you is this is a big hull and not nearly as sensitive as my little boat.

Don't be afraid to ask any questions.  Been there, done that, and I asked a ton of questions when planning and doing my conversion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My goal was to replicate a cutwater 26 boat.

However thats easier said than done since I have to work within the footprint of the robalo 2660...

 

Currently here are my drafts of what to do before I start taring into the boat.

progress.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the transom concept I am going with.

I was going to cut the transom out completely and then raise the stringers and extend with coosa into the new transom form and the fiberglass over it.

Then cut a new coosa board to enclose the transom. 

I also wanted to extend the platform to the full width because I really like the angled down look you can make.

new transom.png

 

Just noticed I didn't figure in for my trim tabs. Now to cut that out of the model and have less flotation.

 

Edited by RichardK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Batteries will go in the pilothouse. 

Oil tanks will have to sit on the enclosed transom.

I am moving the in floor livewell which I hate onto the transom. However if I put that near the door to the pilothouse that should offset the weight enough. I would have to put it on the starboard side since the boat leans to the port side since I believe there is lead glassed in to offset the water and black water tank on the starboard side which i never fill.

 

Also Im not sure if it helps. I can add 2lb density foam to anything since I do spray foam for a living. 

Edited by RichardK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plan looks good and I like that you are already thinking about things that can be adjusted for balance purposes.  I do not know about the lead "counter weight" but have see enough Robalo's with a lean opposite of the water tank that it makes sense something is there.  Fill the tank and the boat sits level!

Your idea of extending the hull sides to get that Euro look is nice.  See if you can extend the tub back to the engines.  The back of the bracket should be around an 11 degree angle just like the factory transom, which allows plenty of room for tucking the motors in.  Also check some other boats with brackets to get an idea how much the bracket should be above the hull line.  You don't want it to be too deep that it ends up being part of the planing surface.

The spray foam experience will help when you start putting stuff back together.  I can see where one could spray some blocks of excess foam to be shaped later for custom fiberglass parts on the boat.

Have you seen the 2680 being re-worked?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read through thstnpost. Glad to see others still working on rebuilding older robalos. Sadly when I'm done I dont think I'll get the 30k I'll have put into her. It should be close to my dream boat though. 

Tomorrow I should be cutting into the decks. Had to build stands for my optimax motors so I can get them out of my truck. I'll make sure to post pics as I go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately that is the case with these older boats.  I paid 5 grand for mine.  Probably spent another 12 grand between newer motor, new trailer, bracket, and materials for the enclosed transom.  And I don't dare figure out what my labor would have been, other than a little less than free!  But, once finished, I had a boat that could run comfortably 35 miles offshore and know it would make it back if the weather got snotty.  These things are almost like a family heirloom, at least that is the rationale I used for justifying doing what I did to it and keeping it as long as I  have.

The hardest part will be making that first cut.  Just try to keep planning about 3 steps ahead so you are not re-building parts that you realized really did not need to come out after all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My helper guy didn't show up today. Yesterday we managed to get the stands built for the motors and got them off my truck. 

Twin 2013 optimax 200s sitting in the garage with rigging for $5500.00

Now to learn how to remove the engines and rigging from my boat.

I also forgot that I live in a boating town so I was able to find a local guy thats worked on boats a bit that I can pay to help me with the project. 

Hopefully Making a semi final list on things.

Glass/3d model/ac+heat/overall design/new floors/windlass/ toilet with flush and pumpout/sink 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds like a good deal on the engines!  I paid 5,000 just for the engine, then had to scrounge up rigging, gauges, and binnacle.  That stuff adds up fast!

Need to find somebody with a tractor and front end loader.  Would make removing the engines so much easier.  Before I got my tractor, I used the kid's swing set and a come-along to swap motors.  

Looking forward to watching your progress!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The optimaxes have 1500 hours on them. Hence why they were cheap.

 

I actually have a forklift and a workshop. Sadly we have a bathroom in the shop and it takes away the length I need to get the boat in. So making room in my other warehouse. 

 

I'm pricing out supplies right now.

8 rolls 50"x50 yard 1708

53 gallon resin drum with hardener

10, 3/4" #28 fiber reinforced boards 

$6258 

 

RIP my budget of 10k for materials.

Hopefully in the next 5 weeks it takes to get the supplies in I can save up some extra money. I'm thinking my budget will need to be about 15k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least you have the forklift.  That is a big help for removal and moving them around.  

Is the fiberglass supplier near by?  Just thinking out loud, but that is a lot of fabric to have laying around the shop at one time.  If anything, start with 3 rolls if the supplier is local.  Also price going with 5 gallon containers of resin.  Thinking behind that is 1) a 5 gallon container will fit under a table and not take up much space; 2) lessens the possibility of a lot of excess resin being left after the project is completed; and 3) relatively fresh resin (not something 1 year old); 4) hopefully this is not the case, but of something happens during the re-build and you decide to not complete it, you are not stuck with a bunch of unused material.  I am not trying to discourage you, just throwing some thoughts out there.

Resin; you going with poly or vynil?  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Poly resin. 

I'm not short in space/storage for temperature controlled stuff. 

All the materials I am buying are from maryland and virginia which are 5-6 hours away from me. 2 separate trips and I'm fine. 

The pricing on the fiberglass and resin is lower since I am buying in bulk. Also I have to call a week in advance to get it so they can bring it in for me. I wanted to buy from a fiberglass distributor to make sure it wasn't  resin thats been sitting for awhile. (I've kept resin for like 2 years before for spray foam and used it in my own building :P even after letting it go to 0 degrees Fahrenheit. I've even let resin go up to 110 degrees :D Then you let it sit in a temperature controlled area and mechanically stir it and Iv made it work in my building before (Only for personal projects as Id never sell a product that I experiment with) 

I also have 50 gallon pneumatic pumps sitting around from another experiment I had. Hopefully today/ this weekend I can finalize my design so I can order stuff on monday. 

The amount of work I am doing its tempting to sell my running robalo and buy a bigger boat to rebuild. However then I cant trailer it and have to pay more for long term up keep :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, now you cleared up some of my concerns, especially when talking about getting the wax re-distributed through the resin.  That was one of my real big concerns, especially since you are going with polyester.

Where are you located?  Have you checked with Eastern Burlap in Norfolk?  That is where I purchase fabric and resin.  They supply the guys down in Eastern NC and Outer Banks.  Good people that I have know for over 30 years, very knowledgeable, and prices are good, too.

Your last comment is what has kept me from going much bigger.  It is really nice to be able to trailer the boat whenever I want to go some place different.  I have towed from Virginia to the Florida Keys 3 times and had a blast!  Plus, whatever boat I have I need to be able to launch/retrieve myself for those days nobody else can get away on short notice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't checked them out. I will give them a call on monday since they don't have their prices posted online. 

http://fiberglasssite.com/ = the place I was getting my fiberglass and resin in bulk

http://www.carbon-core.com/ = the place I'm getting my composite boards from

The glass windshield  and windows I am getting from a shop in new jersey since I met one of the owners on a sale call. 

 

As for trailering a boat. Long term up keep is huge to me. For example I bought a camaro project instead of a corvette. Same/similar performance however parts and maintenance are 1/2 price on the camaro. The boat I am building is on par with the cutwater 24 couple/cutwater 26. The lowest price for a used one on the market is a 2012 listed at 87500.00

So if at the end of my project I have $35k into my boat including the trailer. To have a nice pilothouse boat with a composite floor and transom. New glass and gelcoat with my own custom color and features I'm happy. 

My first year boating I had to rely on a shop to provide a trailer and pull my boat out of the water and work on it. I did not like that feeling at all as I like to have the option to work on things myself if needed. Also I was thinking of trailering my boat down to virginia beach or ocean city late in the summer for fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So my plans are just about finishing.

However I would need to extend the hull and boat 1.5 ft and then attach a 30" bracket to the boat. 

What are your thoughts on extending the boat 1.5 ft and also adding the bracket/flotation for engines to move back 30"

Also I got a look inside the hull and found the guy I bought it from wasn't lieing. They put a new fuel tank in the boat 150 gallon in 2017

https://www.easternmarine.com/moeller-150-gal-below-deck-fuel-tank-ft15004

 

New design removes rear in floor fishwell. Then slides fuel tank back. Which will then open under neath the pilothouse for a second birth or storage.

side view extend 1.5 ft.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never done a hull extension.  I understand some of the structural things used in doing it.  Sanding the bevel into the existing hull to properly tie the new hull extension is critical to spread the joint over as wide an area as possible.  If the bottom of the existing hull is 1/2" thick, I would go beyond the 12 to 1 ratio (12 inch bevel for every 1 inch hull thickness).  A 1/2" thickness would be 6" bevel; I would try for 8" to 12".  The next challenge will be tieing the new stringers into the existing stringer system.  This would be a good question for a fiberglass shop to see how the overlap should be and a recommended laminating schedule.  On the few stringer repairs I have done, the original stringer was cut at a 30 degree angle, then the new stringer was butted up to that and glassed with 4 layers of 1708 biaxial.  These repairs were only 2 ft forward of the transom.

Fuel tank - are you thinking of sliding it back up against the transom?  If so, that will block off access to the bilge area in front of the garboard drain.  Personal opinion is I like to be able to see the bottom of the hull at the transom, plus with the bracket already on the boat, that is throwing more weight at the transom.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as I can pull off the design. I can place the fuel tank 2 feet away from the transom. I do agree the having access to the garboard drain is good. I'll draw the top side tomorrow and I'm gonna put a decently large hatch top with gaskets.

 

Currently where the 2 inspection plates are the last owner cut out the floor before the transom to do work and caulked it back into place.... 

 

Excited and hopefully about the place in norfolk. Maybe they can sell me all the stuff and the accessories I need.

 

I'll update tomorrow evening if I get the top side drawing done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so Eastern burlap is about the same price however I dont have to order in bulk! They also stock everything and I can get a 15 lb coosa board for the deck and pilothouse which will also save me a little. Though I may just go with 26 lb coosa for everything. Its nice to have the option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seat bases out. Over tank board removed. Tank exposed. 

 

Everything seems like its solid fiberglass and it's very heavy. Rain tomorrow so going to lt the tank area fill with water and hopefully flood some of the debris out of the drains. Also going to attempt to make room in my shop for the project.

20200224_130655.jpg

20200224_130653.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take a look at carbon core honeycomb, also.  Big weight savings over conventional solid cores and I believe cheaper than the coosa products.  

Richard is the one I deal with at Eastern Burlap.  I think his dad started the business, so they have been around for some time.  Don't be shy to ask any questions; he has been a tremendous help to me in learning what products are best.  And yes,...they have a big wharehouse full of neat stuff.

Take a look at Smitty's rebuild of his 2660.  He has ran into the same thing as you, a lot solid glass below deck and he knows the importance of big hatches for access to the bilge.

I like the innovative way they locked that fuel tank in place with the foam poured in the plastic bags.  Just enough foam to do the job yet allow for proper tank expansion.  Plus, this way the tank is not "glued" to the coffin box by the foam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to start the project back. Had to stop due to my company being shut down for corona virus. However now we are re opened and slowly get back to work.

I decided not to extend the running platform due to concerns of it changing how the boat rides.

All other things are pretty much the same.

 

1,000.00 BXM1708B 17oz BIAX FABRIC, 45/45 W/.75oz MAT,50" WIDE 1.860 LBS. 1,860.00
5.00 AC8040N-3 5GAL. NOWAX G.P. POLY. RESIN 111.000 EACH 555.00
1.00 NOR9G GAL. MEKP-9 CATALYST 35.050 EACH 35.05
10.00 BW2675 3/4" Bluewater 26 Coosa, 4' x 8, 26lb Density 214.380 EACH 2,143.80
115.00 OC-1550 1-1/2oz. MAT, 50" WIDE 1.430 LBS. 164.45
1.00 AC8040W-3 5 GAL. WAXED G.P. POLY. RESIN 111.000 EACH 111.00
1.00 PS-TLG-625-H-2 4.5 GAL. PRO-SET FAIRING PUTTY - HARDENER 334.810 EACH 334.81
1.00 PS-TLG-625-R-2 4.5 GAL. PRO-SET FAIRING PUTTY - RESIN 310.440 EACH 310.44
1.00 USC36176 2-1/2 QUART PAINTER'S PAIL, 50/CASE 41.500 CASE 41.50
1.00 RR938-9 9" ROL-RITE ROLLER, SEMI- SMOOTH, 3/8" NAP 21.120 CASE 21.12
1.00 4328R 8" Bent Trimmer, Black Handle 13.250 EACH 13.25

List of things I am getting

Going to get another 5 gallons of poly resin with wax

Also 5 gallons 2:1 epoxy

Prices are for reference for others looking to work on their boat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to this project.  Please post lots of pictures as this kind of stuff makes for a great resource for others to reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...