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Retainer

Retainer Restoration Project 1978 Robalo CC

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9 hours ago, 2-N-TOW said:

Coal tar epoxy will make that tank last forever.  But...I am not a fan of having standing water in the coffin box!  I suspect someone installed a drain in mine as there is no standing water and out of curiosity one day I dumped a gallon of water in the fuel coffin and it ran out of the bilge drain.

If you decide to go with the drain hole, you may want to think about strapping the tank in place so water can drain from around it.  There are strapping kits made out of stainless steel available to tie it down.  Ask the tank manufacturer what they would recommend for strapping it down to insure water can flow past the tank.

Are you saying to consider strapping it in instead of closed cell foam? 

Also, do you think that 2’ length of pvc will be long enough to drain to the bilge?

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2 minutes ago, Retainer said:

Are you saying to consider strapping it in instead of closed cell foam?  There isn’t much space at all between the tank and the sides of the box to install straps. I’m sure it can fit, but closed cell foam would lock it in place, no? I already a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff.

Also, do you think that 2’ length of pvc will be long enough to drain to the bilge?

 

Edited by Retainer

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My only concern with the foam is unless you have some type of an opening under the tank running from the front to the rear of the coffin box, water will not have a way to drain out the back of the box.  The metal straps will allow any water that gets into the box the ability to flow around the tank and out the drain.  If you were to even consider strapping it in, talk to the tank builder as he may need to put some tabs on the tank to attach the straps to.

Another way to use the closed cell foam would be to cut some plastic strips so you could build little dams down the side of the tank and extend about 8" under the tank.  The strips need to be about 10-12" apart, and two of these on each side.  You would also need the same set-up at the front and back but these do not extend under the tank and only one would be needed for each end.  Pour your foam down between the strips and it will lock the tank in place while still maintaining openings for water to make it to the drain at the back of the box.

As for the length of the tube, I do not know what the distance is between the back of the coffin box and the last bulkhead that makes up the bilge.

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23 hours ago, 2-N-TOW said:

My only concern with the foam is unless you have some type of an opening under the tank running from the front to the rear of the coffin box, water will not have a way to drain out the back of the box.  The metal straps will allow any water that gets into the box the ability to flow around the tank and out the drain.  If you were to even consider strapping it in, talk to the tank builder as he may need to put some tabs on the tank to attach the straps to.

Another way to use the closed cell foam would be to cut some plastic strips so you could build little dams down the side of the tank and extend about 8" under the tank.  The strips need to be about 10-12" apart, and two of these on each side.  You would also need the same set-up at the front and back but these do not extend under the tank and only one would be needed for each end.  Pour your foam down between the strips and it will lock the tank in place while still maintaining openings for water to make it to the drain at the back of the box.

As for the length of the tube, I do not know what the distance is between the back of the coffin box and the last bulkhead that makes up the bilge.

What should I use for the plastic strips?

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I got to thinking about this and a better idea may be something like a caulk backer rod to make the dam.  The hardware stores have them up to 3/4" thick.  You could tape them in place prior to setting the tank on top of them to compress the foam.  If a wider rod is needed, maybe cut some pool noodles to make the dams.  

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I relayed your good ideas to my boat guy. I don’t know any other point of view seems to be rejected by him, then again it’s my boat. 

The Azek decking arrived and the 1” is too high. We inserted a smaller piece into the deck skin and more than half was exposed. Of course, there was residual glue, glass and thin areas of wood glassed to the bottom of the skin, so that didn’t help the fit. So I need 1/2” .

spent a couple hours knocking off the rough patches under the deck skin to clean it up and level it. Also worked on the bottom part of the section that fits under the console. With this section, pic below, there was a section that had wood glassed to the bottom. I think this was to support the oil reservoir.

i chiseled away at it to the point the skin of the wood was glassed to the bottom. I figure I could screw thru the top into the smaller section of the 1” AZEK decking I have as a sample.

F10491D1-10E2-406E-9E3C-55DA7046B17C.jpeg

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I ordered my LED nav lights and 3” round courtesy lighting to replace the old lights. Also ordered a pair of Lobomarine spreader lights to replace my old halogen light off the top rear of my T-top. Trick there will be tethering the new wiring thru the aluminum tubing to the console. I know to attach the new wire to the old and pull it through, but I don’t think I have enough wire coming off the new lights so I will have to use heat shrink connectors then pull the wire through one at a time to feed each connection thru the small hole coming out of the tube at the light. I should be ok.

i want to install some red LED lights under the T- top for night vision. Not that I do a lot of night fishing, but I have a great bridge and other good areas to hit but for the fact I have a crappy lighting situation and my nav lights did not work because of wiring issues.

I would also like to run some red white and blue LED lights under the gunnels so that there is a different color under each of the three sections. I have to run the wire feed to the starboard box then feed a wire underneath up into the port side. I removed the inner cleats and we made speaker holes to both Glass the inner part of the transom then install speakers when finished. Not a whole lot of “running wire” options on these boats. It’s all fabrication and drilling holes.

Edited by Retainer

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Pick up one of the cheap Harbor Freight angle grinders, some 36 grit discs, and start grinding any old coring that is still stuck in place.  Would be a good idea to either wear long pants and long sleeves or get a tyvek paint coverall so you are not itching from the fiberglass dust.  That old material needs to be removed so you only have the coffin lid skin to work with.

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44 minutes ago, 2-N-TOW said:

Pick up one of the cheap Harbor Freight angle grinders, some 36 grit discs, and start grinding any old coring that is still stuck in place.  Would be a good idea to either wear long pants and long sleeves or get a tyvek paint coverall so you are not itching from the fiberglass dust.  That old material needs to be removed so you only have the coffin lid skin to work with.

I have that HF orbital sander I bought to rip off the paint from the deck. I was thinking of just getting some 7” 60 grit pads. Out of curiosity though, isn’t it better to have some rough ridges for the 5200 to bite? As long as the bottom is even, do I really need to get it smooth all the way to the glass?

Edited by Retainer

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Rough ridges is what you want; that gives the adhesive something to "grab" on to.  You do not want a smooth surface.

If any old wood coring material is left on the bottom of the lid, that will be your weakest bonding point.  The goal is to have the surface as flat as possible so the fiberglass skin is making as much direct contact with the underlying core as possible.

That orbital sander will be just fine and 60 grit will work.

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Today I took off the T-top spotlight and I’m researching its replacement. I like the idea of both a handheld and permanent mount remote. Stryker makes one that comes with both. I might pick up the Dominator dual trumpet horn to take the place of my old horn which is inside the console. I would attach the horn to where my old Garmin gps antenna was located on the T-top.

 

But the evaluation today was testing what I would find by inserting the bit extension through the Garboard drain. Obviously I used the bit side and this extension is 72”. I stuck it in and pushed up to the point I’d resistance, tapped it a little bit and realized it was foam. Pushed through the foam and I believe I was hitting the coffin box but I couldn’t be certain without someone up in the boat listening to the knock. But I’m pretty confident it was the box and not a bulkhead.

I cleaned up the wiring under the console and by that I mean I removed most of the wires, except for what was ruining up into the T-tops tubes. 

While The T-top was down, I noticed my am-fm antenna wire was breaking apart to the point it needs replacement. I saw Shakespeare has a dual separator which allows both the radio and vhf to use the vhf antenna. Anybody familiar with this setup? My new Dual radio has a portable am- fm wire antenna. But not sure about quality of reception.

I suppose the biggest setback is the fact that the 1” thick AZEK is too thick and I need it in half inch. I need to check a local retailer since my friend won’t be back down for 2 weeks and my gas tank is being delivered this week. I want to get that deck finished ASAP to start the primer/paint phase.

CDEE5CFB-AD80-4202-B073-F017FF31B27B.jpeg

3FF029F9-B3CD-4308-8DDE-7BD52A10904A.jpeg

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Almost any building supply (ABC stocks sheets and have seen it occasionally at HD) should stock the Azek.  

One thing to think about regarding the spotlight; having it on the T-Top could temporarily "blind" you at night when you turn it on.  All that light will bounce off the forward part of the boat and the reflection will kill your night vision.  If you can figure out a way to mount it up on the bow, it would be much better.  I mounted my remote spotlight on the bow rail to eliminate the problem.

Let us know when you definitely figure out where the bit is hitting.  One way to get a rough idea is to put a piece of  tape on the bit at the transom, then pull it out and lay it on the deck with the tape mark in the approximate location as the drain plug.

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Yes I stopped at the local Somers Point Lumber today and asked if they had the AZEK. They don’t but they have in stock 1/2 inch sheets of PVC! For $118 4x8, I’m picking it up tomorrow. I can create support beams to sit across the tank with the excess cutoff. Guy told me just about everything bonds to it incuding resin/strand. So I can double up to make the support beams go across where the leaning post legs will stand, backing plate too I suppose glass it in.

excellent idea about the bit and tape.

i don’t really want the light on the bow, I do a lot of anchor fishing for stripers and don’t want it in the way. I have a handheld spotlight too but I like the light up top because I need to light up the stick markers coming in at night. I like the idea of the handheld remote but I’m afraid that will see Davy Jones locker. So another reason for the hard wired remote. The channel is about 25’ side with no room for error. Outside the channel it’s very shallow. In fact it’s a go out at low tide in daylight on plane and come in at high tide slow so you don’t hit the sticks.

waiting to hear about the tank, but I want all the pieces in place to get the floor down ASAP.

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Yes I stopped at the local Somers Point Lumber today and asked if they had the AZEK. They don’t but they have in stock 1/2 inch sheets of PVC! For $118 4x8, I’m picking it up tomorrow. I can create support beams to sit across the tank with the excess cutoff. Guy told me just about everything bonds to it incuding resin/strand. So I can double up to make the support beams go across where the leaning post legs will stand, backing plate too I suppose glass it in.

excellent idea about the bit and tape.

i don’t really want the light on the bow, I do a lot of anchor fishing for stripers and don’t want it in the way. I have a handheld spotlight too but I like the light up top because I need to light up the stick markers coming in at night. I like the idea of the handheld remote but I’m afraid that will see Davy Jones locker. So another reason for the hard wired remote. The channel is about 25’ side with no room for error. Outside the channel it’s very shallow. In fact it’s a go out at low tide in daylight on plane and come in at high tide slow so you don’t hit the sticks.

waiting to hear about the tank, but I want all the pieces in place to get the floor down ASAP.

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Well after all that back and forth on the deck substrate,  I’m going with wood. There is a supply house near my office that sells really nice plywood. I’m stopping by today to check it out and likely pick up a sheet. I talked to a few glass shops Tuesday, and the one shop near me, Young’s Fiberglass has an excellent reputation, would use wood to fix it. I’m going to lay a nice layer of glass and strand near the old pedestal sections. Strand over all the old screw holes and try to avoid wood along the edges wherever I’m going to screw down the deck to avoid water penetration. Leaning post is ordered and I should have it around Tuesday. 

We are prepping the deck this weekend so I will post up the progress pics.

Edited by Retainer

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There is nothing wrong with using wood.  Matter of fact, some applications are better suited for wood than a composite coring.  Wood, used properly, can be stronger than a composite laminate and last just as long if you take the proper precautions for any fastener penetrations into the coring.  

To get the max strength out of the wood, first paint a coat of resin or epoxy on the top and give it time to soak into the wood.  If you do not do this and lay your fiberglass directly on the wood, it is possible to end up with a dry laminate due to the wood absorbing the resin.  A layer of mat on top will be fine but be sure to thoroughly wet it out and roll out all air trapped between the cloth and wood; there should be no white spots when done properly.  I still recommend a thickened layer of resin on the bottom of the coffin lid to fill in any voids and surface irregularities. The bottom should be covered by a layer of 1708 biax cloth to both seal it and add strength to the overall structure.  

If you cut the plywood so it is a snug or just shy of touching the sides of the lid, paint them with the resin while coating the top to seal the raw edges.  Go heavy on the thickened resin around the edges of the lid so when the plywood is placed, the resin oozes out, insuring all voids are filled.  Use a putty knife to get the excess off the edges.

To insure no moisture makes it into the core where screws or bolts are being installed, over drill the holes then fill with thickened resin for screws or use the method I described in a prior post for installing stainless nuts in coring....the same process works for plywood.

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Sounds good, I will relay your info. Better yet I will print this out and hand it to him.

I’m hoping to drill that drain hole in the bottom of the coffin box. Actually on an angle to insert the 3/4” pvc drain tube. Talked to boat guy today when I dropped off the plywood and he was not thrilled with drilling hole with being absolutely certain water would not be an issue. My opinion is, why take the chance? I’m here, let me drill a drain hole....

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Well that drilling through the coffin box did not work out too well at all. I drilled on a pretty good angle, I thought, but I can only think I hit a bulkhead. I could not drill through and without being able to see what exactly I was doing, well let’s just say I quickly ended this saga. I ended up pushing some foam pieces down into the hole which I took out of the transom behind where the cleat was located (to be explained) in the new speaker hole. I then topped that off with 5200 and a piece of flat plastic as a cover, then more 5200 and topped that off with another piece of foam. No pictures of this fiasco.

on a better note, I bought some really nice plywood for under the deck and console skins. I spent a little time yesterday cleaning the console piece with Spray Nine and scraped off any excess caulk and sanded off any paint off both pieces. We spent the better part of today glassing the plywood into both pieces. I’m moving the batteries to underneath the console so we wanted to reinforce the console skin. The oil reservoir will remain under the console behind the starboard side hatch where it was before. 

Here are a few pics.

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901797F0-AA14-4095-9CAA-FD420B3CF27F.jpeg

1254A30C-705D-4ACF-B639-7AC54974B851.jpeg

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We still need to add some heavy glass and plywood around the perimeter of the console lid.

the gas tank should be delivered Wednesday and the leaning post is arriving any day now.

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Looks good!  Appears you got a good, heavy coat of resin on the wood, insuring no dry spots once the wood absorbed the resin.

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1 hour ago, 2-N-TOW said:

Looks good!  Appears you got a good, heavy coat of resin on the wood, insuring no dry spots once the wood absorbed the resin.

Yes, we laid a sheet of heavy strand down first and poured almost a gallon of resin. Spread it out through the strand and there was a lot of resin for the plywood. After setting the plywood, more resin and 2 sheets of heavy strand and more resin.

now I’m a glass expert. 

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We inserted the gas tank and wanted to pour the foam around the tank. When we opened the 5 gallon container of carboncore foam resin, the product was beyond shelf life and just a thick gray playdough. Since this was NOT in the plans, work today was halted til I pick up some new  foam. 

My lighting and horn have arrived. Primer arrives Tuesday. 

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