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fretz

84 2020 questions

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We have owned a 1984 2020 for about 15 years. Replaced the transom and fuel tank in the past. Its a great boat.

 

I need to replace the rubrail and really like the look of the rigid vinyl with the stainless cap.

 

http://tacomarine.com/product/V21-9959/1-9-16-x-3-4-Rigid-Vinyl-Flex-Core-Rub-Rail

 

If I'm going to do a fancy new rub rail i should really consider painting the hull while I'm at it. Hulls I can handle... The deck is another matter as I would have to remove the bow rail to do a good job on that. Was the bow rail through bolted before the deck was joined to the hull? I would want to reinstall it after painting with kids on the boat.

 

The teak covering boards are pretty much done. Has anyone used anything different to replace them?

 

I also want to fill the back fish well and the trough where the scuppers are so i'm painting the floor at the same time too.

 

Is it worth rebuilding the aft fish well with gutters so it does not fill up with water?

 

Thanks

 

Fretz

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How does the gelcoat on the hull look now? If it is just oxidized, I would try wet sanding / buffing to get the shine back. Paint looks nice, but the hull takes abuse from either docking, bumping against other boats, errant sinkers when fishing, and paint tends to chip easier than gelcoat. The only paint that would hold up would be a good 2 stage polyurethane, but they are not cheap. I have to re-do my cap in the near future (previous owner had it painted and the paint has worn off in some places). I will probably go with gelcoat only because it can take the abuse and I can spray it outside and not worry about minor imperfections (they will be compounded out when finished).

 

When you say fill in the motor well, how will you be able to trim the motor up and have room for the control cables not being in a bind? Gutters are not a bad idea, either....this is something I have considered, too.

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If your talking about the small area right in front of the motor that alowes you to get to the bottom of the motor bolts ? If so I'm working on a way to do the one on my 1976 ( my origional has a deck all the way to the transom with acess under the deck in the back ans should be pics in my gallery) I hope to be doing in in the next month or so and have a few differnt ideas to work on. It would under the Dottie Q restorations .

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There is just a trough at the transom. its 4" wide and 6" deep. Over the summer it gets a ton of growth from having water in it all the time.

 

After we replaced the transom the gelcoat just doesn't match. The original Roballo stickers are pretty well shot and the area under them needs to be sanded smooth so painting seems like the best option.

 

Any advice for removing the bow rail?

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Take a 1/4 " ratchet and use it to loosen one of the screws .It could be be a SMS or a machine screw. We use to use S/S T-nuts

And even put plates that were drilled and tapped. And the other option is the SMS that went to a hardwood block with 4200 to lock

them in good. If you just spins it means the barbs on the T-Nut have broke off and now your in a rock and hard place. Only way to get it out is cutting a hole big enough to work in it with vice grips . Don't try it with screw gun use the ratchet. Actually search it I've seen it on a few posts over the years. If you do the holes save the cutouts ( lable them to use on same one) hit the edges of both the plug and deck to get your glass something to bond to. Now when you go to patch it use a tong depress stick with 2 part 5 min epoxy set on the ends and put it inside and then you can put it on a wire to hold it in place . Once you have then all done mask off all around the holes

Start glassing them back in wetting a piece glass cut in circles larger than the plug and stack 3 on back of plug and insert it in the hole.

The stick keeps it from falling in and you just need to keep it as level as possible. Right before it gets really hard use a heavy duty window razor and cut it off this will save a lot of sanding.

Hope this helps .

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Update

 

Were doing the hull only this year. rub rail to waterline. Were using awlcraft 2000 stars n stripes blue. bootstripe will be white and flag blue and the bottom will be red. Last weekend was perfect for painting so the boat is fully primed. If the weather cooperates well get the finish coat on this weekend.

The awlcraft converter is only sold by the gallon. I'll have 3 quarts left over if anyone has interest.

 

The deck will remain gelcoat for now. Were going to get the chips repaired, compound, polish and wax. I feel that 32 year old gel coat is more durable than paint on a deck. I'm going to live with the trough until I repower and fix it at that time.

 

I'm having a problem with the rub rail. The original is not fit to reuse. The profile looks like a D at 1-1/2" high by 3/4" deep. The hull to deck seam is smooth so the rail sits flat over top of it. I cannot find a matching profile. Every one has a lip on the bottom. Is that something I trim off to suit my needs?

 

Also I would like to do a rigid vinyl with a stainless overlay. Sounds like I can heat and bend around the bow and stern. Any experience before I pull the trigger? Last question... any vendors have rub rail samples that I can look at before making a decision?

 

Thanks

 

Fretz

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I think if you're going to change the style you'll be fine as long as you cover the hull to deck joint. White with a stainless insert is sharp!

Edited by mark g

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Added a few more photos to the album.

 

Settled on the R1701 from integrity marine corp as the new rubrail. I was very impressed with the quality and the price.

 

http://www.integritymarinecorp.com/. Ask for mark!

 

The rub rail was what started this whole journey. The stainless looks really sharp against the black vinyl. Since the deck is the off white we didn't think a white rub rail would look correct. it's 1 7/8" tall vs the 1 1/2" that was replaced. It is a lower profile and really looks sharp. We did have to trim the lip as there are very few choices without one. The stainless was a challenge. We did the bow 1st so the joints were factory finished and the only cuts were at the transom. No matter what we tried there was always a hole at the corner. In hindsight cutting the end in the middle would have been better but I didn't have a polisher to dress the end.

 

Paint was awl craft 2000 stars and stripes blue. We used the Converter G3039 which was recommended as we were painting outside and conditions were far from ideal. The results far exceeded our expectations. We set out to do this on the cheap. It was time to spruce up what is essentially a floating pickup truck. I've rolled and tipped two previous boats but this was the 1st spray job. We ski fish clam and run the boat around the bay like a taxi. We've never set a fender since we owned her. I'm in trouble now.

 

Boot stripe was 2 coats of perfection and brushed but the tape lines were set with a laser after a quick splash to mark the waterline.

 

Bottom was black micron. We mixed blue and the remaining black 50/50 to get dark blue.

 

Next year well touch up the gelcoat and replace the teak. This Friday we launch!

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The gloss on that finish is fantastic! Did you do any buffing on it or is that how it was straight from the gun? What was the set time between coats? I can think of lots of questions to ask after seeing the results as this will make a lot of people re-consider how to go about updating their hulls. Just out of curiosity....how much was the total paint investment (primer, hi build, paint, reducer, etc)?

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No hi build. I used long boards on the decal shadows and a 6" electric da with a soft pad on the rest with 150 grit.

 

2 quarts of the 545 primer, 2 quarts of the converter, 1 pint of cold cure accelerator and spray reducer. 3 heavy coats with about 30 min between coats. used about 3 quarts total

 

Black guidecoat and Sand with 320 on the da

 

2 heavy coats on the finish. About 40 min between coats No polish, that is the gloss. Apparently the 3039 is supposed to give a deeper reflection than the normal activator.

 

As for cost I am about 550 into the paint and another 125 in paper. The sander was a new Bosch 6"da and worth every penny of 300 I paid for it. The rub rail was another 500 including shipping.

 

There's loose ends like new registration numbers and a polished ss through hull for the bilge pump. Oh yea... Bumpers, I had to buy bumpers too.

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That is not bad on material cost at all! I bet you would be over 2 grand if a shop was doing it.

 

Yeah...don't forget those bumpers! Gotta keep that gloss looking purty :thumbsup:

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First weekend in the water! No scratches yet!

I want to recore the deck hatches in the bow before I raise the waterline. Otherwise I think we nailed it.

 

 

post-783-0-28685400-1464781714_thumb.jpeg

Edited by fretz

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Looks good and glad to hear it is back on the water! Now show us some pictures of fish coming in over the sides!

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After a great season our Robalo is officially winterized and tucked away for 6 months.

 

We could not be happier with the paint job. Over the season we had minor growth on the boot stripe that would wipe away with a sponge. When we pulled for the winter there was heavier growth following 3 weeks of sitting but again it simply wiped away. I did not miss the annual application of "on & off" to restore the color of the gelcoat either.

 

Project for this winter is removal of the deck from the transom to the fuel tank. We intend to remove that in floor fish well and as much of the wet foam as possible. Ill grind and glass the through hull closed on both sides. When i replace the floor it will run flat to the transom removing that scupper trough that was always filled with water.

 

Questions for the group...

 

What is under the floor, stringers or just the foam? If i remove that fishwell should I add stringers to support the bottom and the new floor?

 

Ill need to install new scuppers in the transom. Should i create a small depression in the floor to catch the water or just install level with the new floor?

 

Ill have a hatch to access the bilge. Should i go with a pre made bomar style hatch or attempt to mold one into the floor?

 

Im trying to balance what is necessary vs what is possible. I don't want to spend all winter over-engineering a boat that lasted 30+ years in its current state.

 

Ill add a few photos to the album too.

 

Thanks!

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Glad to hear you had a good season! Now for some answers (I hope):

 

There is both stringers and foam. Stringers do not extend all the way up to the bottom of the deck. Since you are planning on removing the fish well, definitely add extensions on top of the existing stringers to help support the deck. The fish well does provide some stiffness and support, even though there is some foam between the bottom of the well and the inside of the hull.

 

Excellent idea on creating a recess for the scuppers. I wish I had done that on my boat. It is a little more work, but it does look much better and works!

 

If the budget allows for the Bomar hatch, definitely the way to go. It will create a watertight seal when latched. Accomplishing that with a home-made hatch would be a pain in the back side getting all the tolerances right, unless you have lots of time to play with it.

 

I like that last comment about a 30 year old boat. Look at it this way...that boat has lasted this long and a little TLC should keep it going for another 30 years!

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Happy new year!

 

Spent the weekend at the beach and had time to open up the floor.

 

before

 

IMG 8109

 

After

 

IMG 8247

 

IMG 8246

 

We removed the entire floor and splashwell aft of the fuel tank coffin. In total between the deck and wet foam its 168lbs removed.

 

Questions for the group

 

There is a section, about 1/3, of large pipe running in the centerline. There are holes to let any water into the v and out the drain plug. It appears to be full of foam. If i remove this and replace it with a full height centerline stringer would that suffice? Removing it would allow better access to fill the through hull from the old fish well.

 

There are also stringers outboard that were notched for the old live well. I'm going to sister them and have the stringer run full height to the transom. Its 42" center to center. Everything will be tabbed in with several layers of glass to the bottom transom and coffin. Will the 3 stringers be enough support for the bottom? instead of one in the center i could do 2 on either side of center. That would be a stringer every 14".

 

My new floor will be laid up with glass, 3 layers of matt, core and then matt for a total thickness of 1". Ill mold it up side down on a table and trim it to fit. Ill glue it to the tops of the new stringers and tape it in place with 3" tape.

 

I dont think I'm going to "try" to lay up an access hatch in the floor. There will be in inspection plate to access a bilge pump.

 

I have no desire to replace the foam. I may use plastic buoyancy blocks instead.

 

IMG 8111

 

The boat is inside and i have a fan running to help circulate air and dry the remaining foam. I'm hopeful that after a month it will be dry enough to begin fiber glassing.

 

I have to buy some vinylester cloth and core in the next month. Where are you guys sourcing material?

 

Thats it for now.

 

Fretz

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If you were to remove that drain tube running down the centerline, would it be replaced with something on both sides of the new stringer to allow water to drain to the bilge?

 

I would go with two stringers instead of one and retain the drain line along the keel. The foam provides some support for the floor and since you do not plan on replacing it, another reason to go with 2 stringers to minimize any flex. Be sure to have limber holes in the stringers so water can flow to the center of the boat and to the bilge. What material are you planning on using for the stringers; wood or composite?

 

The laminate schedule for the floor...I would go one layer of biax cloth on the bottom side of the core and 2 layers on top. Biax is just a little more than matt but adds a tremendous amount of strength due to the long fibers.

 

Whatever you use for floatation needs to be resistant to fuel and water. It also needs to be abrassion resistant due to moving around below decck so the floatation integrity is not compromised.

 

Eastern Burlap in Norfolk, VA is where I get my fiberglass materials. Been dealing with them over 30 years :thumbsup:

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This weekend i finished cutting back the existing flotation foam so that i can tab in the new stringers. It will sit for a week or two to dry before I start grinding.

 

IMG 8407

IMG 8408

I'm moving forward with 2 new stringers and sistering the existing outer stringers. This will leave about 13" in between each stringer. The more i think about it i will probably pour foam into the outer cavities. This would leave the centerline open for a bilge pump and the plumbing to drain the bow compartment and the port transom box. Foam was good enough for the 1st 33 years and i'm never going to remove all the foam and all the existing moisture.
Im using a 1" think corecell for the stringers and 1/2 to core the floor.

IMG 8410

I also put up a plastic tent to keep the dust out of the rest of the garage. Fortunately there is a window next to the boat and i can run a box fan to help. Fiberglass grinding dust is one of my least favorite things to clean up.

 

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One more thing... Im looking for a combo fish finder chart plotter. If anyone is upgrading your equipment id be interested in something under 5 years old.

 

Any fishing we do is inside the bay or within sight of the beach. I really just want the basics. I have a existing garmin transom mount transducer but i could install a through hull with in my project.

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Finished my patterns for the new stringers.

 

IMG 8445

IMG 8446

IMG 8447

IMG 8443

Still need to trim the aft edge for a drainage gutter but that can wait until i make up the new floor.
Also did my initial grind to prep the surface for new glass

IMG 8449

IMG 8448

 

I still have a good bit to go but i ran out of time.

 

I have to make a decision this week. Epoxy or vinylester for the new stringers and floor. Opinions welcome.

 

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I am partial to vinylester. Much better secondary bond strength than polyester, better chemical resistance, cheaper than epoxy, and compatible with gelcoat. Epoxy has its place, but my thought is epoxy is too stiff compared to either poly or vinylester and you run the risk of a stress point where the two meet.

 

Real world experience, I have ran my boat very hard after re-building the transom in 2006 with vinylester and no prolems to date! We had also built some safety capsules used in power boat racing using vinylester instead of epoxy (I believe it was AME 4000 resin). Never had a failure due to fatigue. The only time one of the capsules was impacted at high speed, it did its job and deflected the other boat away from the driver....capsule was destroyed in the process, but the driver was able to walk away.

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Stringers looking real good! So what have you decided on the layup schedule for attaching them to the hull?

 

Floor...is it going to be flat or do you have other ideas in mind? If flat, think about using tileboard (4 x 8 sheet is $15-20). Wax the shiny side (2 or 3 heavy coats), then lay up the top skin on this. Lay down a layer of mat first, followed by 2 layers of 1708. Roll the laminate to get out all air and compact the material then set aside. Take your core material and coat with resin and one layer of mat. Go a little heavy on the resin. Position the core on the laminate on the tileboard, then get somebody to give you a hand flipping over the stack so the tileboard is now on top of the core. It is important that the core is perfectly flat. Using formica laminate roller like this

 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Extension-Handle-Roller/3030693

 

work the material from the center to the edges. This will help push air out between the skin and the core, while having that smooth finish when you peel the tileboard off the following day.

 

Now is a good time to also make some fiberglass strips 3 inches wide on the tileboard. Use whatever scrap cloth laying around and make it at least 4 layers thick. The finished product will be used to fasten strips to the bottom of the existing deck with thickened resin. Strips should extend half way under the existing deck. Shoot some sheet rock screws or sheet metal screws through the deck into the strips to pull them up tight. Scrape off any material the oozes onto the exposed flange so it will not interfere with the new deck. Let that set up, then fit the deck to the opening.

 

When you get ready to install the new deck, cover the exposed flange with thickened resin (go heavy so there is enough to squeeze out when the deck is fastened down). Repeat with shooting screws through the new deck into the flange. Once all set up, remove all screws, sand glass back to a bevel on both sides of the joint, and lay fabric and resin over the joint to build it back up just above the deck level.

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The new floor will be flat with a slight "gutter at the transom that will be tapered to a single drain fitting on center line. The aft edge of the gutter will be a vertical flange that will bond to the transom. ill grind and tape the seam to the existing glass. Essentially the entire inner side of the transom will have new glass tied into the bottom, stringers and floor. When we replaced the transom awhile back we did it from the outside and did what we could to get a bond with the existing inner skin. This will finally tie it all together.

 

Ill install new larger scuppers about 1/2" above the new floor to handle anything unexpected over the bow.

 

I'm planning on making the floor upside down and possibly vacuum bagging it if I'm motivated... I'll need to buy a new vacuum pump but i have the fittings from a previous project.

 

The strips are a good idea. I have decided to refill the outer cavities with new flotation foam so i was counting on that and the new stringers to support the floor and provide a backing for the thickened resin. The top layer of glass will be ground back and taped the the existing floor. That is the thickest part of the sandwich.

Edited by fretz

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